27 September 2023
The interview of Prof. Dalibor Dukic broadcasted via Radio Belgrade, Public broadcasting service Radio Television of Serbia (RTS), 27th of September 2023, 11.00
The ‘Rečeno i prećutano’ radio series cultivate an analytical approach to social issues in its broadest scope. It amplifies the resonance of specific public statements and explanations, aiming to uncover the implicit or subtly hinted concepts—referred to in journalistic terms as ‘reading between the lines’. The radio journalist endeavors to attain comprehensive understanding through thorough research and analysis of truths. Accompanied by proficient interlocutors, the journalist seeks contributions that bridge the informational gaps and enrich understanding. Professor Dalibor Đukić, University of Belgrade, Faculty of Law was delighted to be a guest of the show dedicated to the issue of international migration.
The first part of the interview focused on the international legal framework for protecting asylum seekers and the challenges arising from implementing international norms. The discussion also explored recent shifts in European immigration policies, particularly in liberal countries like Denmark and the UK. Both countries have implemented restrictive immigration legislation aimed at modifying the Dublin Regulation and adapting their national laws to new circumstances. Their primary objective is to reduce the number of admitted immigrants, asylum seekers, and refugees. It was acknowledged that migrants generally have the right to seek asylum if they have faced discrimination, persecution, or life-threatening situations in their home country, and consequently, do not wish to return. According to the Geneva Convention, one of the grounds for granting international protection is persecution on religious grounds. However, the interviewee noted that problems arise when this system is abused or when an open-door policy allows anyone to receive international protection, even those not facing life-threatening situations or persecution due to their beliefs. He highlighted the efforts of the Central European Academy in Hungary, which launched the research project ‘Migration Challenges – Legal Responses’. This project aims to analyze the impact of migration on European states and societies and propose de lege ferenda suggestions for improving migration law.
Professor Dukic also provided a brief historical overview demonstrating the longstanding and complex relationship between migration and religion. He highlighted that human history is inherently intertwined with migration, citing examples from the Bible and European peace treaties. Notably, the Peace of Augsburg (1555) exemplifies this connection through its principle of ‘Cuius regio, eius religio’ (whose realm, his religion), leading to the migration of Lutherans to Lutheran states and Catholics to Catholic-ruled states. This historical evidence underscores the enduring interconnectedness of religious beliefs and migratory patterns.
Furthermore, Professor Dukic stressed the ongoing relevance of this connection, emphasizing that as migration continues, legal responses are necessary to ensure compliance with international law and protect those in genuine need of international protection. These responses should also strive to ensure that limited national capacities for admitting refugees and migrants are preserved for those facing genuine need, rather than operating an open-door system.
The interview then shifted to address the growing influx of refugees arriving via the Mediterranean route. The interviewee noted that similar challenges arise in other parts of the world, using the example of Chinese migrants seeking asylum in the USA. He pointed out the existence of specialized groups that train Chinese individuals interested in emigrating to the US, often utilizing the argument of being Christian. Some of these immigrants claim that they cannot return to China due to their religious beliefs, citing violations of their rights and potential threats to their lives.
However, verifying such claims presents significant difficulties, as the individual’s statement often constitutes the sole evidence of alleged persecution. The interviewee emphasized the fragile nature of religious freedom, highlighting that no individual has the right to question a person’s beliefs. This applies even to immigration officers working with asylum seekers, who should avoid delving excessively into the personal relationship between an individual and their religion. Despite this principle, the interviewee acknowledged that the lengthy asylum approval process in the US includes questions about prayer book ownership and the number of pages within those books. This indirect method, while avoiding direct questioning of beliefs, attempts to verify religious affiliation based on factual information. Professor Dukic concluded by reiterating that seeking asylum on religious grounds can be susceptible to abuse due to the complex nature of verifying religious affiliation, often relying solely on the asylum seeker’s claims. This highlights the need for robust and sensitive approaches to assessing such claims while upholding the fundamental right to religious freedom.
The intersection of religious freedom protection and migration law presents complex challenges, especially when it comes to asylum seekers claiming atheism as their grounds for seeking refuge. While freedom of religion protects all beliefs, including atheism, verifying an individual’s claim of atheism can be significantly more difficult than verifying membership in a religious group. Unlike religious individuals who often engage in specific rituals or practices, atheists lack such readily identifiable indicators. This poses a challenge for authorities tasked with assessing the legitimacy of asylum claims based on atheism. Those are challenges resulted from the intersection of religious freedom protection and migration law.
The final segment of the interview explored European experiences and challenges in managing migration policies and regulations. The interviewee highlighted the differing approaches of Hungary and Poland towards illegal migration. He emphasized that these countries’ adoption of restrictive policies wasn’t driven by problems with migrants themselves, but rather by a desire to comply with international law governing asylum procedures and avoid an open-door system. He clarified that international law doesn’t guarantee automatic international protection or entry permission to everyone attempting to enter a country.
Furthermore, the interviewee noted that Hungary and Poland have generously admitted a significant number of Ukrainian refugees, being the first countries impacted by the crisis. While these individuals are likely only temporarily residing in these countries and hope to return home once the war ends, they require special care. This is due to the predominantly female and child composition of Ukrainian refugees in Hungary and Poland, unlike the predominantly young male migrant population arriving via the Mediterranean.
Professor Dukic expressed his opinion that a more restrictive approach to migration is unavoidable in the future. This trend is already evident in recent legislation adopted by many European countries. The latest example is the United Kingdom’s Illegal Migration Act 2023, which stipulates that unaccompanied children entering the UK will be admitted but subsequently returned to their home country (if safe) or a safe third country upon reaching adulthood. This raises concerns about potential re-traumatization and forced integration into new communities. While the long-term impact of this practice remains unclear, it signals a shift in European policy towards a more limited acceptance of refugees. The possibility of further admissions, however, remains open.
Throughout the interview, comparisons were drawn between European refugee accommodation capacities and those of states like Lebanon, Turkey, and others in Asia. The interviewee emphasized that the living conditions for refugees in Lebanon and Turkey are vastly different from those experienced by refugees in Europe, regardless of their origin. Europe’s response has been demonstrably more humane, with a focus on organized admission and integration into local communities. Unlike in Turkey and other Asian states, refugee camps are rarely a permanent solution in Europe.
The key question raised is whether European societies have the capacity for further refugee integration. One issue justifying a more restrictive approach to immigration is the continent’s widespread population decline. It’s clear that immigration alters European demographics and national characteristics. Therefore, a potential solution lies in full compliance with international law, but in a more restrictive manner. States must strictly adhere to all provisions of international refugee law, which precisely define who qualifies for legal protection and what that protection entails.
The interviewee acknowledged that some issues extend beyond law and are more intertwined with international relations, geopolitics, and the future policies of European states and societies. Additionally, the problem of low fertility rates was highlighted, alongside the desire for economic growth and the demographic decline’s impact on European societies. While technology like artificial intelligence can replace humans in some less demanding jobs, economic growth necessitates a workforce. Labor shortages due to demographic decline will undoubtedly affect European economies. The question arises: can importing labor solve this problem? While differing theories exist regarding the impact of immigration on labor shortages, it is widely accepted as a short-term solution. The interviewee emphasized that the only viable long-term solution might be increasing the birth rate of the native population to maintain and improve living standards in European countries.
The interview concluded with a quote by Jacques Chirac, who stated that Africa’s population was 950 million at the time, with half younger than 17. He estimated that by the middle of the 21st century, the population would reach 2 billion. He then asserted that if Africa wasn’t assisted, development funds weren’t allocated, and investments weren’t made, these people would ‘flood the world’.
The radio interview has been announced on the official web page of Radio Television of Serbia: https://www.rts.rs/radio/radio-beograd-2/5279798/migrantska-kriza-u-senci-rusko-ukrajinskog-rata.html. Also, an audio record of the interview can be found on the same web page (available only in Serbian).
